Part II of an interview with Steve Perryman, by Callum McFadden for WFi. Part I can be found here.
Looking back on your managerial career, which took you from England to Norway and Japan, with success along the way—winning the Asia Cup and being named J-League Manager of the Year—how do you reflect on your time as a manager?
“Well, you don’t have your legs forever. Your legs give out, but your brain remains as active as ever, as sharp as ever. When you realise that’s happening, you have to ask yourself: What are you going to do with this active football brain?
“So, of course, I got great satisfaction from helping the players around me, especially the young players. You know, Ardiles didn’t need too much help, although he was a listener, and he would take everything on board. But he didn’t really need it as such. I thrived off my connection with him, to be honest. We had long discussions about [César] Menotti and Keith [Burkinshaw], the way they did things, what captaincy meant in Argentina versus what it meant in England, and even what it might mean in cricket—though I doubt Ossie was ever going to understand cricket!
“So, developing players—that’s where I found success, particularly in Japan. What gives me the most joy is that when we first arrived, there were no players from our club in the national team squad. But after my five years there—three with Ossie and then two on my own—we ended up with six players in Japan’s 2002 World Cup squad. That happened because we turned them on to a new way of thinking about the game.
“Ossie was the flair type, quick, reactionary—‘Do this, do that!’—whereas I was the shop-floor footballer. That’s how I had been taught, and that’s what they needed. The Japanese players needed both. Football was still a developing profession there, and they needed structured teaching, but they also needed the spark that Ossie brought. Together, we were a perfect fit.
“We took a club that was the least powerful financially—we were owned by the community, whereas all the other teams were owned by big corporations. We were a test case, proving that a club could survive through footballing means: how many people came through the gate, how successful we were in games, how many people wanted to watch us, how many cup finals we reached, the prize money we earned. And we did it—absolutely did it.
“I have to say, Ossie for three years, then me following his three years—we took Japan by storm. And, you know, they love Arsène Wenger. They adore him. But individually and together, we were actually more successful than Wenger in Japan.
“When my team won the championship—because back then, the J-League had two halves to the season, with a playoff at the end—after we lost the final in my last year, they actually changed the rules. If you combined the two league halves, we had finished 20 points clear at the top. But because of the playoff system, we lost the final on penalties, after going down to ten men within the first ten minutes.
“That year, my team scored the most goals, conceded the fewest, and had the best disciplinary record. All of that came from my education under Bill Nicholson and his staff, Keith Burkinshaw and his staff, and, of course, Ossie.
“And if you think about it, the knowledge that fed into Bill Nicholson’s brain was incredible. He had Arthur Rowe, from the push-and-run team, influencing him. He had Walter Winterbottom and Ron Greenwood. All of that knowledge filtered through Bill, and then Bill passed it on to me. Someone like me could listen, absorb it, and then decide—‘Hmm, that’s a bit old-fashioned, Bill. That might not work in the modern game.’ But you have to have seen it and gone through it to know whether to keep it or discard it.
“Overall, the football education I received was truly, truly remarkable.”
Looking back on your career, both as a player and a manager, and your ongoing contributions through your website as well as your book A Spur Forever, it’s clear you’ve amassed a wealth of experience. What do you hope readers take away from these works, and how do you see their impact on the broader football community?
“Well, of course, there’s a Spurs bias to it. Of course there is. But I think it’s a very positive bias.
“I also have a podcast, and I love pointing out things that pundits often ignore. They always talk about game management as if it’s the be-all and end-all of football. When it works, they highlight it. But when it doesn’t work, they brush it under the carpet. They’re all following the same train of thought—‘This is how you win football games.’
“But that’s why I love the idea that Ange Postecoglou has as Spurs manager, because he’s coming from a completely different place. It’s an Ardiles place, a Nicholson place.
“I was speaking to Mike Varney, the physio during Keith Burkinshaw’s time, and he told me a story. He once asked Keith on the touchline, ‘Do you ever play for a draw?’ And Keith said, ‘Never. Never.’
“After we won the FA Cup in 1982, I was driving past White Hart Lane and saw Keith in his office, so I popped in for a cup of tea. He asked me, ‘What about next season’s league campaign?’ I said, ‘I think we need to keep things fresh. Why don’t we play a little bit more like Arsenal?’
“He looked at me and said, ‘What do you mean?’
“I said, ‘Well, when Arsenal play poorly, they get a draw. When we play poorly, we lose by three. And it’s harder to come back from a 3-0 defeat than from a disappointing draw.’
“He said, ‘Steve, if you ever sat behind this desk, you could never say that.’
“I’m Tottenham through and through, but even I was thinking—We’ve won the cup. Now let’s challenge for the league. What do we need to change to win the league? Can we do it while still playing stylish football? But Keith absolutely rebuffed that idea. And rightly so—for a Tottenham manager, that was the right attitude.
“That is where managers like [Antonio] Conte and [José] Mourinho failed. They didn’t understand the club they were at. Daniel Levy probably bowed to their trophy-winning reputations, maybe under pressure. In his 20 years at the club, I think he’s won the League Cup once—or has he even won any other trophies? But he succumbed to it.
“Spurs fans want to see the team play with a certain style. No way would they accept anything else.”